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  • bitu72
    10-18 02:18 PM
    i have sent my application last friday.

    Any idea how many months its taking nowaday for complete process - whatever it is its much better than what we have here.

    i see lot of people with PR.can you guys post some of you thoughts and experience regarding jobs in canada. are u guys getting any offere while staying here.





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  • aps
    09-23 01:53 AM
    This is not fair and good idea. what about people waiting in line for years and invested their money elsewhere because of this green card delays or those who do not have enough money and job in this market situation. All of the sudden you are brining this idea. This is not fair. This is kind of buying green card. There is a investment based green card category available for that. I request you to go through that channel if you are rich. Not all employment based green card seekers are rich. Please keep that in mind.

    thanks,
    aps





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  • justAnotherFile
    06-27 10:15 PM
    My 2 cents.
    USCIS does not control the PD dates, State dept does. The state dept will change the PD's to when it runs out of visas to provide USCIS.
    Case 1: Assume USCIS and State dept are in close touch over the currently approvable I-485s which can consume visas starting July 1

    If USCIS has 40K such approvable apps, then the State Dept (being in close coordination with USCIS abt numbers) would have just moved the dates to Nov 2005 for EB-2 India the date when it retrogressed and similarly to the date when EB-3 retrogression first happened for India.

    The fact that they did not do this means they do not have the sufficient numbers of approvable ones. Now the new ones filed in June or July will not become approvable until at least 90 days. So if they are hoping that some of the "new" 485 petitions filed in June/July will be straightforward enuf to approve in 4 months, they have to keep dates at current at least until July end.

    Case 2: USCIS and State dept are not coordinating "closely" over the approvable numbers

    This means the State dept arbitrarily changed the dates to Current instead of consulting with USCIS that they have 40K approvable petitions. And why woudl they in that case make the numbers unavailable in mid-july in that case?

    Lastly even if the numbers can become Unavailable it has to be announced by State Dept. So worst case scenario it can become "U" in July 11-15, which makes the claim by Matthew-OH that it can become unavailable in July first week itself ridiculous.





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  • nandakumar
    05-28 09:47 PM
    1. Employment-Based Visa Number Movement and Predictions

    Many MurthyDotCom and MurthyBulletin readers closely track the U.S. Department of State (DOS) Visa Bulletin each month. The most recent Visa Bulletin chart is always available on MurthyDotCom. Given the importance of the cutoff dates in the Visa Bulletin, attorneys at the Murthy Law Firm are often asked for predictions as to the movement of the cutoff dates. There is no better source for this information than Charles Oppenheim, Chief of Immigrant Visa Control and Reporting Division at DOS. Mr. Oppenheim was a guest speaker at a May 20, 2009 American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) meeting, which was attended by most of our attorneys. Mr. Oppenheim�s explanations and visa number / Visa Bulletin expectations for the remainder of FY2009 and for FY2010 are explained below. Readers who are unfamiliar with the Visa Bulletin and the role visa numbers play in the permanent residence (commonly referred to as the �green card�) process should review some of the articles on this important topic that can be found on our website; among them, Priority Dates - How Do They Work?

    Historical Background

    Mr. Oppenheim discussed the historical background that led to the current unavailability of visa numbers, known as retrogression, for certain employment-based (EB) immigrant visa categories. Retrogression is not something new or unfamiliar in immigration law. Most EB numbers were current from July 2001 through January 2005 due to legislative that provided a temporary solution. This legislation authorized unused visa numbers from previous years to be put back into the system. Those additional numbers, along with the annual allotments, were sufficient to meet the demand until January 2005. Since January 2005, the supply of EB visa numbers has fallen short of the demand.

    Current Trends in Visa Usage

    Mr. Oppenheim stated that immigrant visa applications at U.S. consulates abroad are down seven percent from FY2008. India will use all the visa numbers that are available to its nationals this fiscal year. This is due, in part, to huge increases in the usage of EB4 and EB5 categories. Applicants from India have used twice the number of visas estimated for FY2009. Mr. Oppenheim stated that, because of the excess demand, further retrogression may occur over the summer months.

    Predictions for Movement and Usage of EB Visa Numbers

    Employment-Based, First Preference (EB1)
    Mr. Oppenheim expects that all EB1 visa numbers will be used before the end of FY2009. This may result in the establishment of a cutoff date for the EB1 categories for India and China, beginning in August or September 2009. Usage in the EB1 worldwide category (listed as "all chargeability areas except those listed") is also higher than expected. This may lead to imposition of a cutoff date toward the end of FY2009.

    Mr. Oppenheim explained that a trickling effect of unused visa numbers between EB categories has helped keep EB1 and EB2 categories current in prior years. However, due to the processing of a high number of applications, this trickling effect has already occurred, but is not expected to occur again in FY2009. Mr. Oppenheim attributed this to the hard work of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), as well as that of the DOS, as they have succeeded in processing enough cases to likely use all available visa numbers from all categories for FY2009. He stated that the DOS and the USCIS are supposed to process enough cases to use the annual allotment of visa numbers and not leave any available visas unused and wasted in any fiscal year.

    Employment-Based, Second Preference (EB2)
    The EB2 category worldwide is also expected to be over-subscribed and will exhaust all allocated visa numbers before the end of FY2009. To date, Mr. Oppenheim estimates that 3,200 EB2 India visa numbers have been used in FY2009. The high usage in the EB1 category has prevented the usual trickle of visas to the EB2 category. Thus, China will experience the same EB2 retrogression as India in July 2009. The EB2 China cutoff date is expected to be set at January 1, 2000.

    Employment-Based, Third Preference (EB3)
    All EB3 categories are currently unavailable; all available visa numbers have been allocated. No change is expected to occur until the beginning of FY2010.

    Employment-Based, Fourth Preference / Certain Religious Workers
    There has been an unexpectedly heavy usage of visas in the EB4 categories for certain religious worker in FY2009. A cutoff date thus may be set in August or September 2009. Mr. Oppenheim stated that, if the Certain Religious Workers category becomes unavailable, applicants in the ministers category are not affected.

    Visa Numbers for Indian Nationals
    Mr. Oppenheim has set the cutoff date for EB2 India at January 1, 2000. According to current estimates, out of the approximately 200,000 I-485 applications currently pending with USCIS, 120,000 of them are chargeable to India, with the cases divided evenly between EB2 and EB3. This means that EB2 and EB3 India applicants count for 60 percent of the I-485 cases currently pending with the USCIS.

    FY2010 Predictions by Charles Oppenheim of DOS

    Mr. Oppenheim stated that he expects the EB3 worldwide category to have a cutoff date of March 1, 2003, beginning with the October 2009 Visa Bulletin. When asked about the potential cutoff dates for EB3 India, China, and Mexico, Mr. Oppenheim said that it would depend on the demand for these categories over the rest of FY2009.

    Mr. Oppenheim estimated that there are currently 25,000 EB2 and EB3 cases from Indian nationals that have been reviewed and are only waiting for visa numbers for final processing. He stated that, due to the dramatic increase in employment-based filings, visa cutoff dates for FY2010 will be much more limited to ensure that there will be a steady supply of visa numbers available throughout the year. This will lead to earlier cutoff dates and may help prevent visa categories from becoming unavailable.

    Conclusion

    We at the Murthy Law Firm appreciate Mr. Oppenheim's commitment to addressing matters related to visa numbers and the Visa Bulletin. The continued shortage of employment-based visa numbers is a source of great frustration for many and Mr. Oppenheim's predictions do not assuage that feeling. It is better to have an understanding of the reality of the situation, however, than to operate in ignorance or with unrealistic expectations. Once again, the shortage of immigrant visa numbers underscores the need for legislation in this area to increase the numbers, change the counting of the numbers (from one per person to one per family), or to revamp the system entirely.



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  • cbpds
    01-13 06:11 PM
    Will these rules apply for H1 re-stamping or is it just for H1 renewals only?

    That seems to be the intention here..





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  • jayleno
    07-27 09:14 AM
    Buddy Kushal,

    You have guts my friend. A real quickstar indeed. Please PM me. I will join quickstar, I'm really impressed with your speech here. You had me at US Army. I didn't read the rest of it.

    P.S. I dont flip channels, my wife does and I watch whatever is playing. I sip beer and burp after. I hope I'm qualified to join.

    Its like asking an anti-immigrant, what you think about legal/illegal immigration?

    I guess you would get better idea if you call up Amway corporation or FTC and find out. And not from other who spend their time flipping channels and burping beer.
    As far as I know there are people from US Army, NASA scientists, NFL players, pastors etc.....from different background are very successfully building the franchise business. No wonder they are growing $1.2 billion dollars every year since 1950.
    Of course is not for everyone; its only for people who know the power of free enterprise on which this country is built on.

    Question is whether it will work for you? Your families finances are decided by you, and not by any other people. If you do take advice from other, then you will be flipping channels and burping beer too, and it takes one big financial hit to wipe you off the slate.



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  • JunRN
    09-23 02:15 AM
    Asking for exemption from quota will cause this proposal to fail. My suggestion:

    Of the 10,000 available visas per year for EB5, only about 3k to 4k are being used. How about if one buy a house and give a minimum $100,000 cash payment (not credit in US), he will get a temporary greencard from the EB5 visa pool. If after 2 years, the house is occupied and owned by the same person without problems with credit, he will get a permanent GC. This is on top of meeting the requirements of the category he is in.

    Sorry for bringing EB5 in my comments.

    This is just my opinion.





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  • kondur_007
    07-22 01:35 PM
    Excellent analysis and statistics...everyone on this forum has tried an analysis and all of them are very well done. I will thank vdlrao especially, he has provided some interesting links to statistics (which were very informative for me as I was not aware of lot of these numbers).

    The problem is this: We are all assuming that USCIS will work LOGICALLY...which is impossible for them!:p
    They simply can't do that...

    One additional thing, (at least what I think) is that there is missing statistics about labor sub cases (and plz dont start the debate whether labor sub is good or bad thing), cases stuck in name check for years, and very old cases (cases that came out of backlog elimination centers--remember, those were working in four shifts during the last few months of their existance).

    However, they HAVE proved the fact that they can not do even the RANDOM GC giveaway unless PD is in mid 2006 for EB2.

    So I do believe that they will assign the visa number to whichever case they can (and some other cases randomly) to show that they used all visa numbers and approvals will come to the LUCKY winners over next several months (just like what happened in last June, is happneing this Aug). Overall, it is not a bad news...really a good news.

    What will happen to PD in Sept VB? I guess, dates will probably remain the same or become unavailable, does not matter (as RANDOM visa giveaway fiesta might finish all in Aug or goes in sept, regardless, same numbers will be GIVEN AWAY and whether it happens in Aug or Sept does not matter much).

    In Oct 08, dates will retrogress...(OF COURSE!) but probably not too much (as vdlrao said); and I am also not sure what would be the significance of those dates (besides filing of 485) as USCIS usuallydoes not care about it; they will wait till the end of the next fiscal year...and that's when the title of this thread "EB2 WILL BE CURRENT IN A YEAR" comes into play...To continue their usual RANDOM giveaway, they will have to move dates to 2008 at that time (under most circumstances...and based on all the stats!)...Again, we can not stop thinking LOGICALLY and USCIS can not understand what LOGIC is..:D

    See, we need to understand, life is a Lottery. No place for Logic. USCIS LOVES lottery...after diversity visa lottery, they are also doing LOTTERY for H1 now, and one day if they like the idea of doing LOTTERY, for EB cases, they might throw away this all mambo jambo of EB1,2,3/PD/RD/ROW/IN/CH...and JUST DO THE LOTTERY!! After this post, I will go buy a California Lotto...;)



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  • vdlrao
    07-22 02:12 PM
    See, we need to understand, life is a Lottery. No place for Logic. USCIS LOVES lottery...after diversity visa lottery, they are also doing LOTTERY for H1 now, and one day if they like the idea of doing LOTTERY, for EB cases, they might throw away this all mambo jambo of EB1,2,3/PD/RD/ROW/IN/CH...and JUST DO THE LOTTERY!! After this post, I will go buy a Californial Lotto...;)

    kondur_007, u know how to make us laughing in a stiuation like this. your post at the end makes me keep laughing.:D





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  • skd
    10-18 03:53 PM
    How long does It take to get Canandian PR



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  • ss1026
    03-29 06:45 PM
    or is it ignorance? (even if you are responding to someone' post)
    Hindus in India have come a long way when it comes to religious tolerance,don't you know that?
    Remember we had a Muslim as president(Abdul Kalam) a Sikh for PM(Manmohan Singh) a Italian Roman Catholic as the president of the ruling party(Sonia Gandhi).


    If you say so then I think Sonial Gandhi/Rahul Gandhi/(even Priyanka Gandhi would be the front runners in list. Don't forget Sikh riots/Bofors/Oil Scam/the now Missile scam /KGB connection (ref 'State Within State')/ Rahul Gandhi's arrest by FBI and many more...

    Here, have fun... enjoy this.( I know if it was written by a Hindu you would come back saying it's biased.But now you can really enjoy it )

    To all it's a must read

    http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:prdjEwwFXSUJ:www.francoisgautier.co m/Written%2520Material/Christian%2520India.doc+ambika+soni+religion&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    On a side note:
    Kashmir Hindus were ousted by Muslims. Even during the recent Mumbai attacks perpetrators gave a interview to the news channel saying that it is an attack on the Hindu India.
    Still Hindus maintained communal harmony even though Antulay, a muslim ,tried to take advantage of the situation.Still people like you carp about Muslim discrimination.
    What is this desperation to keep the almost non-existent (Hindus-hate Muslims, Hindus hate Christians)hatred/discrimination alive even though reality time and again proves the harmony of Hindus.

    Even after all this I believe the truth that be it Hindus/Muslims/Christians... we are human beings and equal by the very virtue .

    My point is that a person/politician should be judged by the actions/governance and not their lineage. Congress is corrupt like most parties and that discussion is valid (though I would rather see this forum only used for immigration matters...).
    I can certainly provide hundreds of links to make this a dividing post but I dont have a propensity for it. My point was to a show a mirror to people who post some ridiculous posts but get away since they seem to be in the majority or atleast seem to be the loudest. Using the measures of US, a lot of what is said in non-immigration matters on this forum would be deemed so racist.
    As for Kashmir hindus, I truly wishes Justice is done to them. They are the Children of kashmir. Just like I wish justice is done for every person in India whether the crime be done by extremists or State actors. As for the non-existent discrimination of minorities, I hope you are right but trying to silence people who raise such issues is no way to provide justice. Even to this day, discrimination against blacks is a matter of grave concern in this country. A strength of a society/democracy is the treatment of the weakest/minorities.





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  • gc_bulgaria
    02-12 02:52 PM
    Does this mean they have accounted for the people who will claer the name check hurdle after the recent memo? I was expecting EB2 ROW to retrogress based on that.



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  • ivgclive
    07-21 05:11 PM
    Signs and Warning...

    1. Mostly he seems to be a weird guy.
    * God has given us special white blood cells that can find these guys.
    * Listen to your inner soul when it says 'I don't feel comfortable'.

    2. He walks with empty hands (RICH people) while all others in the shop walk with a cart and/or some goods.

    3. Talks loudly, using words as if he is lending money to Warren Buffett or Bill Gates..

    4. His approach.
    * Are you Mr.<a name in south/north depends on your appearance>?
    * I can't believe I meet you here.
    * You look very familiar to me.
    * You look like my younger brother / son / daughter / friend / father / mother / cousin / tomato / carrot / spinach etc

    5. Look for these words...
    * Do you want to make LOT of money? (eventhough he looks like a crap, wandering in a grocery store not buying anything, driving a 1990 Toyotta Tercel).
    * I have a wonderful business opportunity for you.
    * What do you do in your free time?
    * I am running a eBusiness, eCommerce etc.
    * Do you want to make use of your free time in a productive way.
    * Count the number of times he uses the word 'Money', if it is more than 2 times, he is from that cult.

    6. Finally,
    * Can we meet sometimes this week?
    * Do you want to attend a Business Meetting (!) with top heads next week?
    * Do you want to just see what we are doing? (Why the hell I need to see?)
    * Do you want to join us for a Tea, Cofee... (Believe me, they won't call you for Lunch or Dinner, eventhough they always talk about the LOT OF MONEY they have made)


    I read lot of news from school and I learnt this 'multi-link' business 20 to 25 years back. So as soon as he asked me if I wish to make 'LOT OF MONEY' without working, I understood that the poisonous snakes had entered US long time back.

    I had only one encounter 10 years back that went up to the so called 'Business meeting with Tea Party' because I was new to US and these guys were using an updated terminology.

    From then on, I enjoy if I meet such people in Malls, grocery stores, Walmarts. I let him talk for about 20 - 30 mins when my wife is shopping. Asking him very basic questions as if I have not seen a $10 bill in my life. By the time he realizes that I am playing, my wife finishes shopping and we leave.

    This way you can keep yourself updated on the tricks. Amazingly these guys read technology news a lot than us and upgrade their techniques.





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  • bskrishna
    07-23 11:46 AM
    I have seen nos upto 25k per month. So depends on how many resources are working on this as to the naturalization apps...



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  • BharatPremi
    07-26 04:09 PM
    I don't think there is any need to love any country, its just a place like any other. Within no time India has been divided into 3 countries (4 if you count Kashmir). The only important thing is to quickly migrate to the place you like most, everything else is a waste of time.

    Let me challenge you on the basis of what you wrote here.

    1) You wrote: The only important thing is to quickly migrate to the place you
    like most, everything else is a waste of time.

    Good Enough. No argument.

    2) You wrote: I don't think there is any need to love any country, its just a
    place like any other.

    Here I may not have a problem but Americans will surely have problem.
    They want such people from outside countries who are ready to be loyal
    to USA and ready to love USA as their future country.

    Upon identifying your IP Address and then Physical Address USA can ceratinly decide not to consider you as a candidate of Permanent Residency as you are challenging the base of this constitutional requirement for making you a permanent resident. :D What will you do then if USA gives you thumbs down?:rolleyes: :(





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  • texanguy
    06-02 12:09 AM
    Guys...can somebody tell me why they are not counting on EB1 & EB2 row numbers for the last quarter of 2009? Historically, these were the numbers which were transferred to oversubscribed countries, because of which priority dates well pushed way ahead. What's different this time? Even if USCIS works with tremendous efficiency, they cant really use those numbers before the quarter starts.
    Nobody seems to notice this fact???



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  • _TrueFacts
    09-03 08:21 PM
    Comparing Ted Kennedy and YSR..not a sane mind would do.

    Amassing money in the name of fictitious projects is dynamic?
    Relentless swindling of money by the parties, leaders, ministers and bureaucrats is dynamic?
    Mobilizing and supplying huge money to prove your royalty to party in Delhi is dynamism?

    If that is the case then Manmohan Singh, Abdul Kalam what are they…they had every chance and more why don’t we speak about them the same way. Show me one personal allegation on Manmohan or Abdul Kalam.

    Yes, it is dynamism to stay in power and to mint money and for people like you…not for administration.

    Any one speaking against, has to deal with personal abuse, that’s even with opposition MLA’s. What happened to democracy?

    Since 60 years Congress has ruined India and people like Sonia and YSR are few examples of corrupt politics and YSR is openly involved. YSR is no different to a dictator.

    Corruption rampant in AP under YSR's regime (http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=145882)
    Mutiny.in � YSR’s new low (http://mutiny.in/2007/07/23/a-new-low-from-the-andhra-cm/)
    The Hindu : Andhra Pradesh News : YSR a champion of corruption: Chiru (http://www.thehindu.com/2009/01/23/stories/2009012360510800.htm)
    YSR the most corrupt politician - Telugu Movies - Zimbio (http://www.zimbio.com/TELUGU+MOVIES/articles/14097/YSR+most+corrupt+politician)
    Naidu to approach Centre on YSR’s ‘Satyam route of corruption’ (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/naidu-to-approach-centre-on-ysrs-satyam-ro/425227/)

    One can write a book on YSR’s corruption. AP has become worse than Bihar.





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  • mallu
    02-13 02:13 PM
    I am eating 3 times a day and looking for the fourth meal. Meanwhile there is a bunch hanging around the kitchen looking for atleast 1 meal a day. The food supply is limited. If i join with those , i might be in a situation of 2 meals a day. Even though justice is done with respect to whole lot, there was some injustice to me. What is then the incentive to work with IV ? Wasn't that the tone of question ?





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  • GCplease
    10-09 02:35 PM
    I mailed the following message to Senators, Representatives, President's Office, various News organizations sometime in April this year. No one bought it except for some standard reply from the Senator's Offices. At this time, when they have bigger issues, we would be at the bottom of the pile -




    "The Economy is inching towards Recession. The President’s Economic stimulus plan will take at least 6 months to bring in the questionable benefits of the Plan. The Fed is aggressively cutting interest rates to turn around the economy. The questionable benefits of these will take a minimum of 6 months to bear fruit.

    Nothing can prevent the economy from going into Recession if the Housing crisis is not fixed, neither the Economic stimulus nor the Feds cutting the interest rates.

    Now, how do we fix this Housing Crisis. We need to figure out a way to add home buyers. Now, where are the buyers, you may ask. There is surprisingly an easy answer – Employment based Legal Immigrants. These are immigrants who came into this country legally, pay their taxes and social security and who apply for their Employment based Green Cards, the legal way.

    There is a huge backlog of employment based legal immigrants who are waiting to get their Employment based permanent residency (Green card). There are approximately 750,000 applicants in line. This backlog has been caused by the annual quota of employment based green cards whose annual limit (140,000) was set decades ago.

    These are the immigrants who have already passed through two stages of immigration processes – the Labor Certification where it has been verified that no American talent has been available for the Job Descriptions these immigrants were hired for and The I-140 where the employer is verified to be a genuine employer with financial ability to pay for the immigrants so that they don’t become a liability for the state. They are in the final stage of the Green Card process where this huge back log is.

    On top of this, visas not used on a calendar year due to enough resources not available to process them, are wasted. Over the years, these un-used visas amount to around 160,000.

    Increasing the annual quota of employment based Green cards from 140,000 to 300,000 would be ideal. Even Microsoft’s Bill Gates has supported this idea in his recent Congressional testimony on March 12, 2008. But that would require the act of Congress and the Senate and it needs to take its course. We need an immediate solution. Re-capturing the unused visas just needs some administrative fixes and this has been done in the past as recent as 2005.

    Senator John Cornyn is working on an Amendment that would allow the Department of State and DHS to recapture unused employment based visas. Refer -
    http://cornyn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ForPress.NewsReleases&ContentRecord_id=E3CA3FF5-802A-23AD-4A46-BA89FCCC0735

    In this he states,

    “This (recapture) is not an increase in employment-based numbers but rather, a direction for the agencies to use all the visa numbers that are available today”.

    If these unused visas are captured and issued to the Employment based legal immigrants, who have stayed in the country for at least 6 years, we are adding a significant amount of home buyers to the economy.

    These immigrants will eventually get their Green Cards in 2 to 4 years. Why not give it to them now so that it will be beneficial to the ailing economy.

    The 160,000 un-used visas that are captured and the annual quota of 140,000 employment based Greencards for 2008 amounts to 300,000 green cards which amounts to approximately 150,000 families getting a green card.

    Employment based legal immigrants (EB1, EB2 and EB3) who have stayed in the country for 6 years are economically well off and have excellent credit history. Once they get a Green Card, they'll feel more secure and think about buying a home and settling down.

    Of the 150,000 families, 25 % may already own a home. 25% may not have the intention of buying a home due to various reasons. Even if the remaining 50 % buy a home,75,000 homes will be taken off the market. This will act as the much needed catalyst and will ease the Housing crisis a little bit.

    At a median price of 200,000 (this could be much higher as most of the Employment Based GC aspirants live in the metro areas where the price of houses are much higher), this is an addition of 15 Billion dollars into the economy. By this time, the President’s Economic stimulus plan and the Fed’s interest rate cut will come into effect and the Economy will be saved from going into a full blown recession. "





    gc28262
    01-16 01:51 PM
    victimOfGc,

    The point you are forgetting is you are writing in a public forum. It is not just IV members that are reading this forum. Anti-immigrant racists are closely watching this forum. They will take all the negative things you said about YOUR company, stereotype all companies and slap a memo or bill on you. That is exactly what has happened now.

    By your emotional outburst you are not fighting this non-sense memo or unruly POE officers who is obviously acting beyond their authority, you are providing fodder to ant-immigrants to screw us further.

    Don't ever think that these lawmakers are here to provide justice to H1B guys. They are trying to kick us out. They are working in tandem with many anti-immigrant organisations to screw us.

    Please do one of the following google searches to understand more

    1. H1B + sanders
    2. H1B + grassley
    3. H1B + durbin

    Let wisdom prevail.





    sbabunle
    08-03 03:22 PM
    Here is the link
    http://www.murthy.com/news/n_elisub.html
    on more abt substitution



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