alterego
06-27 07:00 AM
Visa number retrogression has no basis in the number of I 485s received. It is based on the number approved.
In the current melee, it will be a huge number of 485s applied, it does not mean the 485s will be approved any quicker.
Hence I am not sure where you all are getting these rumors from.
In the current melee, it will be a huge number of 485s applied, it does not mean the 485s will be approved any quicker.
Hence I am not sure where you all are getting these rumors from.
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willigetgc?
01-14 12:03 PM
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vdlrao
09-15 02:44 PM
I just wondering seeing these estimated numbers, with out having a proper information, for the given years.
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bestia
02-16 02:32 PM
dear Bestia, I don't recall anyone calling the situation you described racism. I for one said it's human nature's favorism and, like it or not, it does jeopordize diversity, so you will have a hard time convincing US to let go something it wants for the sake of something else just because it's better for you.
...
I still fail to see how country caps on Employment Based immigration serve the purpose of diversity. Look, people from India/China with H1B visas and pending AOS applications are already here, right? They are here and will be here regardless of whether they get GCs now or after 10 years. Many of them bought houses, have families, American born kids. How making them wait for years is gonna serve the purpose of diversity? You think if an Indian guy will be using AC21/EAD for years, going to finger printing every year, going through secondary security check on airports, in time he is gonna evolve into something less Indian? It's gonna be the same people but with different documents in their pockets.
For diversity purposes there is lottery, and the purpose of that lottery is exactly that - the diversity. Also, if the government wants diversity, they should have immigration program like Canada has. Where people are issued permanent residency BEFORE coming to the country and spending years working for that country.
...
I still fail to see how country caps on Employment Based immigration serve the purpose of diversity. Look, people from India/China with H1B visas and pending AOS applications are already here, right? They are here and will be here regardless of whether they get GCs now or after 10 years. Many of them bought houses, have families, American born kids. How making them wait for years is gonna serve the purpose of diversity? You think if an Indian guy will be using AC21/EAD for years, going to finger printing every year, going through secondary security check on airports, in time he is gonna evolve into something less Indian? It's gonna be the same people but with different documents in their pockets.
For diversity purposes there is lottery, and the purpose of that lottery is exactly that - the diversity. Also, if the government wants diversity, they should have immigration program like Canada has. Where people are issued permanent residency BEFORE coming to the country and spending years working for that country.
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svr_76
05-12 02:13 PM
I think this forum is the wrong place to discuss any of this. The thread must be deleted.
nixstor
09-03 08:15 PM
You need DOB certificate at I 485. I am not sure whether Police Certificate is needed at 485 stage or not. What I am curious is will the USCIS accept DOB certificate from the Indian Embassy or would require it back from the applicants place of birth. A person whom I know has recently requested for DOB certificate and it took almost 45 days in his native place in India.
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GoneSouth
07-11 12:45 PM
Every time I hear "Canadian taxes are so much higher", I respond back with "really ? how much are you paying a month for health insurance?". I suggest a typical breadwinner with spouse + 2 dependents is probably paying $500 / mo + in health insurance premiums. Add that $6K / yr to your US tax bill, then compare it to your Canadian tax bill. ;)
- GS
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styrum
02-12 06:51 PM
:DI just got home from work and logged in and I thought I was dreaming !!!!!
My priority date is June 2003!!!!! I already have approved petition and AOS. When should I be expeting my GC in the mail considering no need to wait for FBI check any more ?
Hold your horses, brother. Remember that the official position of USCIS now is: "Oh we got so many applications last June-August, that it will be by the end of 2010 when maybe we will return to processing times we had before last summer". So now even with PD current I don't even know anymore when we actually will get it. Also remember that there are rumors they threw people onto processing citizenship applications because that issue got some public visibility. Guess from where they took thos adjudicators. You are right - from 485 processing.:cool:
My priority date is June 2003!!!!! I already have approved petition and AOS. When should I be expeting my GC in the mail considering no need to wait for FBI check any more ?
Hold your horses, brother. Remember that the official position of USCIS now is: "Oh we got so many applications last June-August, that it will be by the end of 2010 when maybe we will return to processing times we had before last summer". So now even with PD current I don't even know anymore when we actually will get it. Also remember that there are rumors they threw people onto processing citizenship applications because that issue got some public visibility. Guess from where they took thos adjudicators. You are right - from 485 processing.:cool:
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logiclife
06-27 11:35 AM
From pages 36-37 of CIS Ombudsman's 2007 Annual Report to Congress (http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/CISOMB_Annual%20Report_2007.pdf).
In the 2006 Annual Report (at p. 16, AR 2006 -- 02), the Ombudsman also recommended that USCIS assign visa numbers to employment-based green card applications as applicants file them. The Ombudsman continues to recommend that USCIS work with DOS to reinstate that process which existed in the early 1980s, wherein DOS issued visa numbers for both employment and family-based applications for applicants as they applied rather than as they were approved. This process would ensure that USCIS does not accept more applications than the number of visas available.
With respect to the recommendation that USCIS assign visa numbers to cases as they are received, the process the Ombudsman describes was the process in place a number of years ago. DOS, which manages overall visa number allocations, modified that process to the procedure in effect today. It is their policy to allocate visa numbers to USCIS adjustment cases only as the point of approval is reached.
However, through the tri-agency meetings, DOS explained that the modification to the program occurred in the early 1980s because INS could not adhere to the requirements to return unused visa numbers immediately. The Ombudsman understands that DOS prefers that cases are reported qualified for a visa earlier than at approval. In the last several months, there have been several suggestions on how to accomplish that task, but operational concerns remain. The Ombudsman hopes that USCIS and DOS can reestablish the older program with improved processing and technology to ensure timely and accurate reporting of cases ready-to-issue and to prevent the future loss of visa numbers.
Yes. Agreed. But what this means is that if they approve too many cases then they may issue August bulletin with retrogressed dates. And that's fine because they can do that and everyone expects dates to retrogress either in August bulletin or in subsequent bulletin.
Which portion of the Ombudsman report says that "In the middle of the month for which bulletin is already out there with current dates, they can just stop accepting applications and sort of "REVISE" an already issued bulletin".
WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ???
And I am still looking for source of information where in the middle of the month for which a bulletin was already issued in preceding month, USCIS chose to stop accepting petitions and not honor the bulletin issued by DOS with current dates.
I am seeing a lot of copy-paste from lawyers websites but NONE, I repeat, NONE has a government website URL or any official source.
Those who still want to believe can choose to believe this. It will make people file on July 1st, if its in their hands. If its in the hands of HR department and company lawyers, it will make them raise their blood pressure until the lawyer sends them an email on July 25th that the Fedex went out today.
I believe that regardless of what August bulletin shows, July bulletin on DOS website applies to month of July all the way thru July 31st and as long as you file before July 31st, you are fine.
I made myself look like an idiot by asking such questions to my lawyer, who is already going nuts over the suddenly sky-rocketing workload of 485 petitions. There is another guy who made a fool of himself by asking the lawyer this question.
And people keep posting new updates and baseless sources to add credence to this baseless rumor. Suit yourself.
In the 2006 Annual Report (at p. 16, AR 2006 -- 02), the Ombudsman also recommended that USCIS assign visa numbers to employment-based green card applications as applicants file them. The Ombudsman continues to recommend that USCIS work with DOS to reinstate that process which existed in the early 1980s, wherein DOS issued visa numbers for both employment and family-based applications for applicants as they applied rather than as they were approved. This process would ensure that USCIS does not accept more applications than the number of visas available.
With respect to the recommendation that USCIS assign visa numbers to cases as they are received, the process the Ombudsman describes was the process in place a number of years ago. DOS, which manages overall visa number allocations, modified that process to the procedure in effect today. It is their policy to allocate visa numbers to USCIS adjustment cases only as the point of approval is reached.
However, through the tri-agency meetings, DOS explained that the modification to the program occurred in the early 1980s because INS could not adhere to the requirements to return unused visa numbers immediately. The Ombudsman understands that DOS prefers that cases are reported qualified for a visa earlier than at approval. In the last several months, there have been several suggestions on how to accomplish that task, but operational concerns remain. The Ombudsman hopes that USCIS and DOS can reestablish the older program with improved processing and technology to ensure timely and accurate reporting of cases ready-to-issue and to prevent the future loss of visa numbers.
Yes. Agreed. But what this means is that if they approve too many cases then they may issue August bulletin with retrogressed dates. And that's fine because they can do that and everyone expects dates to retrogress either in August bulletin or in subsequent bulletin.
Which portion of the Ombudsman report says that "In the middle of the month for which bulletin is already out there with current dates, they can just stop accepting applications and sort of "REVISE" an already issued bulletin".
WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ???
And I am still looking for source of information where in the middle of the month for which a bulletin was already issued in preceding month, USCIS chose to stop accepting petitions and not honor the bulletin issued by DOS with current dates.
I am seeing a lot of copy-paste from lawyers websites but NONE, I repeat, NONE has a government website URL or any official source.
Those who still want to believe can choose to believe this. It will make people file on July 1st, if its in their hands. If its in the hands of HR department and company lawyers, it will make them raise their blood pressure until the lawyer sends them an email on July 25th that the Fedex went out today.
I believe that regardless of what August bulletin shows, July bulletin on DOS website applies to month of July all the way thru July 31st and as long as you file before July 31st, you are fine.
I made myself look like an idiot by asking such questions to my lawyer, who is already going nuts over the suddenly sky-rocketing workload of 485 petitions. There is another guy who made a fool of himself by asking the lawyer this question.
And people keep posting new updates and baseless sources to add credence to this baseless rumor. Suit yourself.
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gdilla
05-09 05:57 PM
Stop the bashing of countries with stupid generalizations like cost of living and bad doctors. This is ridiculous. See my other posts dispelling Canadian misconceptions. That your friends or whoever has had badluck in Canada is probably as much due to their lack of perperation and research before going there coupled with their socialist sense of entitlement.
And for all you considering going to Canada, it's not rocket science. Look for a job BEFORE you go. Heck, take a vacation and go there if you get some interviews. I don't care if your doctor friend is driving a taxi cab - they should have known that there is a foreign credential issue going on in that country before they pack up their family and go there (and hopefully this will be ironed out - it is a problem and a big debate right now).
But it's not like there isn't a way to work around it (suck it up and do what you have to do for recertification - yes it's troublesome, but at least your fate is in your own hands, and you're not stuck in retrogression at the mercy of others). And if you think you have more opportunities in the US, why is it that the majority of H1Bs are being sucked up by desi body shops who just turn around and indenture you? Is that considered a wonderful opportunity ( i guess it is)? How many of you can actually work for a non-desi company? Imagine if they didn't exist. Too bad Canada doesn't have the same body shops, eh. Oh the irony.
It boggles my mind that people take up and leave to a country without actually looking into the job market or thinking everything would be hunky dory. There's something called the internet. Look for Canadian jobs, apply, get feedback, attend job fairs in Canada, tap your networks, etc. If you can't find something, DON'T GO.
I'm not saying Canada, or any country, is perfect, but a proper approach and understanding before you jump into something will ease the transistion. And please, enough of the ignorant generalizations.
If I was an employer and knew you had contempt for my country and thought you were owed something, I'd kick your butt out the door.
And for all you considering going to Canada, it's not rocket science. Look for a job BEFORE you go. Heck, take a vacation and go there if you get some interviews. I don't care if your doctor friend is driving a taxi cab - they should have known that there is a foreign credential issue going on in that country before they pack up their family and go there (and hopefully this will be ironed out - it is a problem and a big debate right now).
But it's not like there isn't a way to work around it (suck it up and do what you have to do for recertification - yes it's troublesome, but at least your fate is in your own hands, and you're not stuck in retrogression at the mercy of others). And if you think you have more opportunities in the US, why is it that the majority of H1Bs are being sucked up by desi body shops who just turn around and indenture you? Is that considered a wonderful opportunity ( i guess it is)? How many of you can actually work for a non-desi company? Imagine if they didn't exist. Too bad Canada doesn't have the same body shops, eh. Oh the irony.
It boggles my mind that people take up and leave to a country without actually looking into the job market or thinking everything would be hunky dory. There's something called the internet. Look for Canadian jobs, apply, get feedback, attend job fairs in Canada, tap your networks, etc. If you can't find something, DON'T GO.
I'm not saying Canada, or any country, is perfect, but a proper approach and understanding before you jump into something will ease the transistion. And please, enough of the ignorant generalizations.
If I was an employer and knew you had contempt for my country and thought you were owed something, I'd kick your butt out the door.
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arunmohan
06-03 07:34 PM
Laws you quoted are for US residents, not for those wanting to be US residents. Country quota, I believe, is more sensitive and difficult to change. Of course, it is not working for the original intent to not have people from a few countries making US as their home.
Work-arounds, we are so familiar with such as AOS, EAD, H1B beyond 6 yrs, etc., are easier to get in. For the current situation, simple work-around could be to adjudicate a case when all is good except the visa number, and send an interim GC card until visa number is available. When visa number is available, interim card could be replaced with a permanent card. In a nutshell, replace EAD/AP with an interim permanent resident card, and replace it with a permanent card when visa number is available.
I agree with JSB. As per my understanding this would be a best option for us right now. We can fight for this from USCIS, there is no need for legislation.
IV and Donor members please proceed for this. I am willing to donate money for this.
We can ask from Ron Gotcher if this is possible or not.
Work-arounds, we are so familiar with such as AOS, EAD, H1B beyond 6 yrs, etc., are easier to get in. For the current situation, simple work-around could be to adjudicate a case when all is good except the visa number, and send an interim GC card until visa number is available. When visa number is available, interim card could be replaced with a permanent card. In a nutshell, replace EAD/AP with an interim permanent resident card, and replace it with a permanent card when visa number is available.
I agree with JSB. As per my understanding this would be a best option for us right now. We can fight for this from USCIS, there is no need for legislation.
IV and Donor members please proceed for this. I am willing to donate money for this.
We can ask from Ron Gotcher if this is possible or not.
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qualified_trash
06-21 03:11 PM
Friends,
Don't waste your time on this. The American employers will never agree to this as LC belongs to them and they don't want to waste time, money and effort again and again. The only problem I see is our desi consulting companies misusing this privilege.
I would say lets not waste our time as DOL/USCIS is trying to formulate ways to check 'LC Substitution Fraud'. At the same time they don't want to penalize the legitimate substitutions where an employee is already working for the same company for years.
fighting retrogression and 485 filing during retrogression are important than this.
Its my opinion only, pls take it on a lighter note...
- Rishi
very true ..................... but it is legal so ......... maybe we should all use it.
I know for a fact that this happens in companies (IT - product development and professional services) and I know this because a friend of mine (our kids play together these days so VERY close) was a beneficiary of such an LC and today has a GC and perm job to die for.......... I ofcourse will NOT disclose the name of the company or person for obvious reasons..........
He worked hard during his MS days to make it here and is just reaping the benefits of his hard work and ingenuity in identifying the opportunity in a legal system gone kaput.......... so no fault of his.
Don't waste your time on this. The American employers will never agree to this as LC belongs to them and they don't want to waste time, money and effort again and again. The only problem I see is our desi consulting companies misusing this privilege.
I would say lets not waste our time as DOL/USCIS is trying to formulate ways to check 'LC Substitution Fraud'. At the same time they don't want to penalize the legitimate substitutions where an employee is already working for the same company for years.
fighting retrogression and 485 filing during retrogression are important than this.
Its my opinion only, pls take it on a lighter note...
- Rishi
very true ..................... but it is legal so ......... maybe we should all use it.
I know for a fact that this happens in companies (IT - product development and professional services) and I know this because a friend of mine (our kids play together these days so VERY close) was a beneficiary of such an LC and today has a GC and perm job to die for.......... I ofcourse will NOT disclose the name of the company or person for obvious reasons..........
He worked hard during his MS days to make it here and is just reaping the benefits of his hard work and ingenuity in identifying the opportunity in a legal system gone kaput.......... so no fault of his.
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user1205
02-14 11:28 AM
I love that idea but too late now :)
ahh, let us take this one step further, and start a "send candy hearts to USCIS" campaign :)
ahh, let us take this one step further, and start a "send candy hearts to USCIS" campaign :)
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pitha
09-25 12:20 PM
The pending perm applications are the missing piece of information to predict the visa bulletin. Is it possible to get this information from the perm database. I though the perm database was for the approved perm cases. I am sure there is some database (maybe the perm database itself) where we can figure out the pending perm cases. I will search for it, guys please all look into it aswell.
Can some one who has parsed the PERM database earlier get the count of pending PERM cases as of today (or the lasted available)?
Can some one who has parsed the PERM database earlier get the count of pending PERM cases as of today (or the lasted available)?
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srkamath
07-23 03:10 PM
Legal, Thanks again. Also that is where exactly is the contradiction in analysis.
In my understanding, they must apply any spill over to EB3 too. EB3 gets 28.6% of total quota (Including spill overs). If some one is sure that it is not the case, please correct me.
If spill over was already applied and if EB3 will not open up again, then EB3 already got its share of spill over and EB2 also used up some part of that spill over, so only part of that spill over is left for the 2 months.
If spill over is not applied yet, then EB3 should get 28.6% of what ever is spilled over to total EB quota. Hence EB3 should open up again.
Please note that I am not making this complex. I am only pointing at complexities.
The 28.6% does not apply to spillovers - it is only for fresh allocations. Spill over goes sideways first until all in an EB category are filled, then spills over to the next EB category where again it spills sideways first.
In my understanding, they must apply any spill over to EB3 too. EB3 gets 28.6% of total quota (Including spill overs). If some one is sure that it is not the case, please correct me.
If spill over was already applied and if EB3 will not open up again, then EB3 already got its share of spill over and EB2 also used up some part of that spill over, so only part of that spill over is left for the 2 months.
If spill over is not applied yet, then EB3 should get 28.6% of what ever is spilled over to total EB quota. Hence EB3 should open up again.
Please note that I am not making this complex. I am only pointing at complexities.
The 28.6% does not apply to spillovers - it is only for fresh allocations. Spill over goes sideways first until all in an EB category are filled, then spills over to the next EB category where again it spills sideways first.
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MunnaBhai
06-28 04:56 PM
I don't think that they will APPROVE 40,000 appplications in a week. Well they were unable to do so in an year, how come in a week or two.
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belmontboy
05-29 04:17 PM
We all need to concentrate on being united. No point in pulling down others. This is typical behavior of Indian attitude. Do you think you will get your GC faster if EB1 abuse stops??? I would say no, we would be still stuck in the same shit hole for another 10 years. Why waste energy on this??? We should rather work on more constructive action items.
Our main problem is 7% quota for India, China and other retrogressed countries is simply not enough. We need some relief in any possible way.
Sometime back i did suggest an idea of working towards a separate Quota (not counted towards 140,000) for Masters/PhD students. That horse was beaten to death.
Lets think more positive and list down all actions that we could work.
To start with i suggest on having a separate quota (not counted towards 140,000) for Masters/PhD students. That should ease most of the pain.
If anybody has other bright ideas, feel free
Channel your outrage on a positive action item
Our main problem is 7% quota for India, China and other retrogressed countries is simply not enough. We need some relief in any possible way.
Sometime back i did suggest an idea of working towards a separate Quota (not counted towards 140,000) for Masters/PhD students. That horse was beaten to death.
Lets think more positive and list down all actions that we could work.
To start with i suggest on having a separate quota (not counted towards 140,000) for Masters/PhD students. That should ease most of the pain.
If anybody has other bright ideas, feel free
Channel your outrage on a positive action item
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shukla77
05-29 04:38 PM
Following is my small idea
-Let us only 100-150 people work on this. More than that is unlikely among us united high skilled immigrants:)
- Send 5 letters every weekend.Send one letter to president and 4 to different senators/House of rep..Not email but regular mail.
-continue on this for next 3 months
( Key is to keep doing this every weekend 3-4 Months)
To start with i suggest on having a separate quota (not counted towards 140,000) for Masters/PhD students. That should ease most of the pain.
If anybody has other bright ideas, feel free
Channel your outrage on a positive action item
-Let us only 100-150 people work on this. More than that is unlikely among us united high skilled immigrants:)
- Send 5 letters every weekend.Send one letter to president and 4 to different senators/House of rep..Not email but regular mail.
-continue on this for next 3 months
( Key is to keep doing this every weekend 3-4 Months)
To start with i suggest on having a separate quota (not counted towards 140,000) for Masters/PhD students. That should ease most of the pain.
If anybody has other bright ideas, feel free
Channel your outrage on a positive action item
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vbkris77
06-16 03:07 PM
Why do you have to resort to calling names ? Are ad hominem arguments the best you could come up with ? Let me give you an analogous case wherein people say that a recession is a good thing. Recession occurs in order to cleanse the economy of bohemian excesses and inefficiencies. Do you think that such people are sadists and belong to the mental asylum ? Of course there are people who get affected in a recession. Does it mean it is not desired ? In a similar vein, you need to understand that there were and are huge gaping inefficiencies in the current immigration process. There has to be a way to curb these excesses and inefficiencies. Retrogression may not be the best way but it is the only way utilized right now. If you still believe that I have to subscribe to these inefficiencies despite having gone through the immigration process, I am sorry I beg to differ.
This attitude was the reason, it took India a lot of time to get freedom from British. Then lot many nobel indians thought British invasion was good for India..
This attitude was the reason, it took India a lot of time to get freedom from British. Then lot many nobel indians thought British invasion was good for India..
_TrueFacts
09-05 05:18 PM
QUOTE=_TrueFacts;840961]breddy2000,
Shame on you. thoo
breddy2000,
I have an excellent firewall against your filthy words and you are only denigrating yourself as PSReddy has said.
Just b'cuz you are challenging me, to let you know, I have all your info, and it took 5 min to profile you on the internet. You have anything to say against the facts that YSR is a "a corrupt, factionist gunda, land grabber who has killed numerous people” then say so, otherwise just keep quite.
Shame on you. thoo
breddy2000,
I have an excellent firewall against your filthy words and you are only denigrating yourself as PSReddy has said.
Just b'cuz you are challenging me, to let you know, I have all your info, and it took 5 min to profile you on the internet. You have anything to say against the facts that YSR is a "a corrupt, factionist gunda, land grabber who has killed numerous people” then say so, otherwise just keep quite.
sankap
07-13 11:18 AM
Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer. Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
Each potential immigrant pays at least Rs 2 lakh chasing that dream. Multiply that by the thousands of Indians admitted each year, and further, by the number of immigrants accepted from all over the world, and you hit upon the most lucrative business today in Canada. According to a leading White immigration lawyer here, who prefers to remain anonymous, his own fee is 8,000 Canadian dollars, which comes to Rs 2,38,000. The government levies extra charges.
What do immigration lawyers advice potential immigrants? "Do your homework, before deciding to go ahead with your application. Arm yourself with facts about Canada. And when you do apply, stick to the truth yourself. You won't be in for unpleasant surprises, then. The rest is up to one's initiative and optimism." Indians need that, says one lawyer, as many of them fall into depression: the changes are just too much. But, he clarifies, Canada is the best. Where else will you find a land of opportunity, that still cares about its people? That's what the Indians come looking for. And haven't discovered yet.
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer. Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
Each potential immigrant pays at least Rs 2 lakh chasing that dream. Multiply that by the thousands of Indians admitted each year, and further, by the number of immigrants accepted from all over the world, and you hit upon the most lucrative business today in Canada. According to a leading White immigration lawyer here, who prefers to remain anonymous, his own fee is 8,000 Canadian dollars, which comes to Rs 2,38,000. The government levies extra charges.
What do immigration lawyers advice potential immigrants? "Do your homework, before deciding to go ahead with your application. Arm yourself with facts about Canada. And when you do apply, stick to the truth yourself. You won't be in for unpleasant surprises, then. The rest is up to one's initiative and optimism." Indians need that, says one lawyer, as many of them fall into depression: the changes are just too much. But, he clarifies, Canada is the best. Where else will you find a land of opportunity, that still cares about its people? That's what the Indians come looking for. And haven't discovered yet.
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