gjoe
02-15 09:38 AM
Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
The current situation is a gross voilation of the constitutional right of employment at will. This amounts to Involuntary servitude which is a more techincal term for slavery. Read yourself the definition of both and make your own judgement.
In my view (though crazy and totaly impractical) the law suit should be against all the employers because they are the one who represent Govt/USCIS in processing our Green cards. Employers told us that we will process your greencard and you will be a PR in x number of years and now that x is infinite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will)
At-will employment is a doctrine of American law that defines an employment relationship in which either party can terminate the relationship with no liability if there was no express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship. Under this legal doctrine:
“ any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_servitude :
Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion. While laboring to benefit another occurs in the condition of slavery, involuntary servitude does not necessarily connote the complete lack of freedom experienced in chattel slavery; involuntary servitude may also refer to other forms of unfree labor. Involuntary servitude is not dependent upon compensation or its amount.
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
The current situation is a gross voilation of the constitutional right of employment at will. This amounts to Involuntary servitude which is a more techincal term for slavery. Read yourself the definition of both and make your own judgement.
In my view (though crazy and totaly impractical) the law suit should be against all the employers because they are the one who represent Govt/USCIS in processing our Green cards. Employers told us that we will process your greencard and you will be a PR in x number of years and now that x is infinite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will)
At-will employment is a doctrine of American law that defines an employment relationship in which either party can terminate the relationship with no liability if there was no express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship. Under this legal doctrine:
“ any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_servitude :
Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion. While laboring to benefit another occurs in the condition of slavery, involuntary servitude does not necessarily connote the complete lack of freedom experienced in chattel slavery; involuntary servitude may also refer to other forms of unfree labor. Involuntary servitude is not dependent upon compensation or its amount.
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perm2gc
10-24 11:06 AM
If you join Microsoft , you might get less salary but they pay your insurance 100%. Is microsoft selling insurance to you?? its just a benefit/perk being an employee of microsoft.
same thing here too... pre-approved labor is just a perk/benefit offered by employer to hire you with less salary. so if you think you sacrificed your salary to get to cut the line for getting GC then you are thinking right.if not please stop thinking like socialist.
It all about money and business brother.
We have so much discussion on this topic in many threads but i dont know why people want to discuss samething again and again.
We know LC substituion is good for few and worst for many...
Admins can you please close the thread...
same thing here too... pre-approved labor is just a perk/benefit offered by employer to hire you with less salary. so if you think you sacrificed your salary to get to cut the line for getting GC then you are thinking right.if not please stop thinking like socialist.
It all about money and business brother.
We have so much discussion on this topic in many threads but i dont know why people want to discuss samething again and again.
We know LC substituion is good for few and worst for many...
Admins can you please close the thread...
nixstor
07-03 04:24 PM
Any other way you can get in touch with her... phone??
I already tried. Looks like she is gone for the holiday. Call 202 513 2000 and by pressing the numbers on the phone you can get to her VM as of now.
I already tried. Looks like she is gone for the holiday. Call 202 513 2000 and by pressing the numbers on the phone you can get to her VM as of now.
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snathan
08-18 11:22 PM
sorry, I love preaching.
by the way I was referring to "the guy who thinks americans think he is a slumdog...." not you or everyone. But then again you think that I think that you lead a life lower than average. If you think you agreed with me, instead of calling it obvious being defensive and, just agree with me. OK? And get that chip off your shoulder as well.
Can you tell me what do you think finally and what others supposed to think about it...:D
by the way I was referring to "the guy who thinks americans think he is a slumdog...." not you or everyone. But then again you think that I think that you lead a life lower than average. If you think you agreed with me, instead of calling it obvious being defensive and, just agree with me. OK? And get that chip off your shoulder as well.
Can you tell me what do you think finally and what others supposed to think about it...:D
more...
mbartosik
12-13 05:52 PM
it's not the cost of getting an opinion that matters.
See my two prior posts on being pragmatic.
See my two prior posts on being pragmatic.
vivekm1309
02-12 09:12 PM
That is an apples to dinosaur analogy.
The per-country ceiling was originally created in order to establish and maintain proportionality in various immigrants coming from different countries in FAMILY BASED IMMIGRATION.
Family based immigration is driven by family relationship. Its not driven by talent or economic contribution. Therefore its important to make sure that no country completely dominates the family based immigration system by getting a head start. If one country is ahead initially in sending immigrants (like the Irish in the 1920s and Italians in 1930s), then that country's immigrants would sponsor their family and that new family would in turn sponsor their relatives and so on. Whichever country has an advantage in the begining would keep building on that advantage and eat up the entire family based quota. That's why when they wrote the INA in 1965 by codifying a bunch of loose federal regulations that governed immigration, they inserted the per-country ceiling. And that makes sense even today in Family based immigration.
Every country in the world has unlimited potential to send family members and relatives to America. But every country in the world does not have unlimited potential to send Ph.Ds and skilled labor. That ability is disproportionately huge with India, China, Mexico and Phillipines.
The per-country ceilings got INHERITED into employment based system because our legislators were too lazy to spot the difference in two systems. One system gives you a green card because you are related to someone. Other system gives you a green card because you have skills that are wanted by an employer here.
Benefits driven by family relationship should be rationed and given out propotionally because an Irish family, Italian family and a Chinese family all love their families equally and the value of family re-unification is the same. You cant say that the Irish love their sibilings more than the Chinese or Indians do. HENCE THE COUNTRY LIMITS IN FAMILY BASED SYSTEM.
But in employment based system, what the system is doing is that an Irish guy, (or any ROW guy) with Bachelor's degree in EB3 is getting green card sooner than an Indian guy or Chinese guy with masters degree in EB2. THAT IS DISCRIMINATION. Yes, that is discrimination not matter how you slice it and dice it with your olympic analogies.
Agreed this is discrimination, what stops us from fighting this discrimination using legal class action lawsuit? Is it the money required or did a lawsuit fail earlier that inhibits us to file class action lawsuit?
The per-country ceiling was originally created in order to establish and maintain proportionality in various immigrants coming from different countries in FAMILY BASED IMMIGRATION.
Family based immigration is driven by family relationship. Its not driven by talent or economic contribution. Therefore its important to make sure that no country completely dominates the family based immigration system by getting a head start. If one country is ahead initially in sending immigrants (like the Irish in the 1920s and Italians in 1930s), then that country's immigrants would sponsor their family and that new family would in turn sponsor their relatives and so on. Whichever country has an advantage in the begining would keep building on that advantage and eat up the entire family based quota. That's why when they wrote the INA in 1965 by codifying a bunch of loose federal regulations that governed immigration, they inserted the per-country ceiling. And that makes sense even today in Family based immigration.
Every country in the world has unlimited potential to send family members and relatives to America. But every country in the world does not have unlimited potential to send Ph.Ds and skilled labor. That ability is disproportionately huge with India, China, Mexico and Phillipines.
The per-country ceilings got INHERITED into employment based system because our legislators were too lazy to spot the difference in two systems. One system gives you a green card because you are related to someone. Other system gives you a green card because you have skills that are wanted by an employer here.
Benefits driven by family relationship should be rationed and given out propotionally because an Irish family, Italian family and a Chinese family all love their families equally and the value of family re-unification is the same. You cant say that the Irish love their sibilings more than the Chinese or Indians do. HENCE THE COUNTRY LIMITS IN FAMILY BASED SYSTEM.
But in employment based system, what the system is doing is that an Irish guy, (or any ROW guy) with Bachelor's degree in EB3 is getting green card sooner than an Indian guy or Chinese guy with masters degree in EB2. THAT IS DISCRIMINATION. Yes, that is discrimination not matter how you slice it and dice it with your olympic analogies.
Agreed this is discrimination, what stops us from fighting this discrimination using legal class action lawsuit? Is it the money required or did a lawsuit fail earlier that inhibits us to file class action lawsuit?
more...
ilikekilo
07-10 11:31 AM
I need to hear more stories like this to realize I won't be alone when time comes for me to pack up.
I am from A.P. Lot of folks from my state in India can't accept anything but USA outside A.P. Me and my wife really like to live and work in other parts of world and we have even asked my company to send us out of USA. The only reason for me at this point to pursue GC is for my wife be able to work part-time.
Otherwise, I am very content being on H1.
please dont speak on behalf of everyone....speak for urself....and do us a favor...did all those folks from AP came to you and suggested that they can only breathe,live and die in usa....congratulations...you just became eligible to join the elite club of stereotypes with your narrow minded mentality........thankx...
I am from A.P. Lot of folks from my state in India can't accept anything but USA outside A.P. Me and my wife really like to live and work in other parts of world and we have even asked my company to send us out of USA. The only reason for me at this point to pursue GC is for my wife be able to work part-time.
Otherwise, I am very content being on H1.
please dont speak on behalf of everyone....speak for urself....and do us a favor...did all those folks from AP came to you and suggested that they can only breathe,live and die in usa....congratulations...you just became eligible to join the elite club of stereotypes with your narrow minded mentality........thankx...
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reddy77
07-03 11:34 PM
Digged , Thanks admins for all these, I really appreciate your hardwork. I want to call senator/Rep in PA, Any contacts of them..
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rahulpaper
06-27 01:23 PM
I am in same boat of HR and company Lawyer (with no control over submission date).
God willing� soon we will all receive a receipt number for I485. There are some calculated risks which are unavoidable.
BTW thanks to you and core team for persistently working for EB community.
God willing� soon we will all receive a receipt number for I485. There are some calculated risks which are unavoidable.
BTW thanks to you and core team for persistently working for EB community.
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caliducas
07-13 09:40 AM
Alright! Back to the US immigration deal! There is still hope and the battle is not over. So I wish you all the best with your cases. Mine has not been rejected/returned yet since my application was delivered on July 3rd. I don't know what will happen, but there is still hope!!!
:)
:)
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GCwaitforever
02-13 02:07 PM
I couldn't agree more with you. The limited number of GC is definitely a critical factor. But we have contributed to this mess ourselves. Look what happened with EB2 India. Did India started producing EB2 talents overnight? No; rather we started polishing our resumes with inflated years of experience and job description so that we can apply to EB2. The system is too liberal and based on trust. If employers start scrutinizing resumes and certificates a lot of applicants will simply drop off from the GC queue.
Totally disagree with you. People do not inflate their resumes and apply for EB2. There is no need for that for many of us in the profession for more than 10 years already. Besides, it comes under immigration fraud and leads to deportation.
EB2 India is clogged up because people who applied for EB3 five or six years ago switched to EB2 by applying with newly promoted positions and transferring old EB3 priority date.
It all comes down to USCIS/DOL/SWA/BEC processing paper-based cases at tortoise pace and making loads of money for their employees and their pensions. Had they processed cases quickly with electronic processing, EB2 India would not be backlogged like this.
Totally disagree with you. People do not inflate their resumes and apply for EB2. There is no need for that for many of us in the profession for more than 10 years already. Besides, it comes under immigration fraud and leads to deportation.
EB2 India is clogged up because people who applied for EB3 five or six years ago switched to EB2 by applying with newly promoted positions and transferring old EB3 priority date.
It all comes down to USCIS/DOL/SWA/BEC processing paper-based cases at tortoise pace and making loads of money for their employees and their pensions. Had they processed cases quickly with electronic processing, EB2 India would not be backlogged like this.
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freedom_fighter
09-03 02:10 PM
pls keep your social discussions away from this website. I think its a waste of resource to having this thread exist in the first place.
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eb3_nepa
10-23 12:08 PM
^^
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leoindiano
07-17 09:35 AM
Dear Attorney,
I had 2 I-140's for same job, same employer. Both approved. When lawyer sent I-485 package they sent the receipt of I-140 which had earlier PD, Which is what i wanted. I saw an LUD on other I-140 on 11/27/2007 almost after a year it was approved. Is that a matter of worry?
On I-485 receipt, Priority Date field is blank. How can i confirm that they got the correct I-140 attached to my I-140?
Thank You
I had 2 I-140's for same job, same employer. Both approved. When lawyer sent I-485 package they sent the receipt of I-140 which had earlier PD, Which is what i wanted. I saw an LUD on other I-140 on 11/27/2007 almost after a year it was approved. Is that a matter of worry?
On I-485 receipt, Priority Date field is blank. How can i confirm that they got the correct I-140 attached to my I-140?
Thank You
more...
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gc28262
06-12 12:40 AM
People need to understand that you need to give some to win some. I would like to propose to IV a kind of proposal that would be a win win for both the immigrants and the US.
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dilipcr,
Don't tell us you are trying to save america for americans ( now that you are going to be a citizen)
You are just trying to close the door behind you.
You think Grassley bill is good for everyone. Yeah sure it is good for you !
You have begun to think like loosers guild( aka programmers guild)
You claim the fittest will survive and you don't need any luck to survive. However you had your round of layoffs too. That is a fact of american job market. Luck does play a lot in people's lives especially here in US. I have heard of an IBM engineer who was laid off during 2001 recession. He had 2 patents under his belt. So nobody is immune to luck factor.
Now that you have become a GC holder and soon going to be a citizen, you are so much worried about the wage levels and and L1 visas. You are ok with H1Bs because you were on H1B earlier in your life.
Did you ever worry about depressing citizen's wages when you were on H1B ?
It is one thing to be so self centered, another to say it aloud on a prospective immigrant's forum like IV.
BTW america is the best place to do business. If you feel threatened by more work force entering USA, become an entrepreneur like Vivek Wadhwa, not a loser like Ron Hira.
Aren't we Indians a bunch of crabs !
.................................................. .................................................. ..............
.................................................. ...................
dilipcr,
Don't tell us you are trying to save america for americans ( now that you are going to be a citizen)
You are just trying to close the door behind you.
You think Grassley bill is good for everyone. Yeah sure it is good for you !
You have begun to think like loosers guild( aka programmers guild)
You claim the fittest will survive and you don't need any luck to survive. However you had your round of layoffs too. That is a fact of american job market. Luck does play a lot in people's lives especially here in US. I have heard of an IBM engineer who was laid off during 2001 recession. He had 2 patents under his belt. So nobody is immune to luck factor.
Now that you have become a GC holder and soon going to be a citizen, you are so much worried about the wage levels and and L1 visas. You are ok with H1Bs because you were on H1B earlier in your life.
Did you ever worry about depressing citizen's wages when you were on H1B ?
It is one thing to be so self centered, another to say it aloud on a prospective immigrant's forum like IV.
BTW america is the best place to do business. If you feel threatened by more work force entering USA, become an entrepreneur like Vivek Wadhwa, not a loser like Ron Hira.
Aren't we Indians a bunch of crabs !
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grupak
12-13 11:25 AM
Discrimination in employment based on nationality is not allowed. However, can we extend the argument to the employment based immigration? We can always choose to take that promotion though we will lose our place in the queue.
Leaving the question of fairness aside, under the current legal framework my guess is we do not have a case.
Leaving the question of fairness aside, under the current legal framework my guess is we do not have a case.
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bazuka6
09-25 09:52 AM
Nixtor, this idea is worth trying. If people who are buyinh house can be exempted from the VB quota, this will free up extra visas and will help those people who will not buy a house.
Yes... if you have house closing statement and have been here legally and paid taxes(last X years... you are exempt from VISA cap)
Now that makes sense for a senator looking for a predictable way to solve mortgage crisis
Yes... if you have house closing statement and have been here legally and paid taxes(last X years... you are exempt from VISA cap)
Now that makes sense for a senator looking for a predictable way to solve mortgage crisis
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mirage
04-01 03:59 PM
It doesn't cost you anything to make promises, also people are used to being ditched by politicians, so they don't complaint. I guess mostly people feel satisfied by just getting the glimpse of you if you are a celeberity, otherwise why would anybody vote for Sanjay Dutt(thank God Supreme court banned him) ? Govinda, Dharmendra, Jayapradha have proved to be worst MPs for their constituencies...Mirage, thanks for the correction..
wondering what he is going to promise to people of Moradabad !?!
wondering what he is going to promise to people of Moradabad !?!
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nogc_noproblem
07-16 01:37 AM
That means, the horizontal spill-over (EB1->EB2->EB3) is the way to go and EB2 I & C will move forward healthily until it becomes current.
So gurus,
The progress has been better than this analysis - so where does this leave us?
Any more thoughts?
So gurus,
The progress has been better than this analysis - so where does this leave us?
Any more thoughts?
logiclife
05-10 05:04 PM
I am talking from a broad perspective, not IV's goals.
IV never had a goal of asking for a points-based canadian model of EB immigration or asking for self-petition system where EB applicants apply for greencards independent of employer. Even if we want and ask for it, it would never happen - for the very reasons I mentioned above. Firstly it would oversupply the workforce with people who may or may not fill jobs and secondly the protection of native-born cannot be achieved without employer-petition that involved labor cert.
So politically, its almost impossible to get rid of employer-petition for all EB applicants. Maybe STEM/PH.D etc candidates will get a shot at such a provision in near future, but not everyone.
And like I said, the current system has its problems but point-based self petition is not the answer. And we are not singing a new tune. We are working hard beyond our capacities to get the same amendments introduced again that were introduced on April 7th by Senators Brownback, Alexander and Bingaman.
IV never had a goal of asking for a points-based canadian model of EB immigration or asking for self-petition system where EB applicants apply for greencards independent of employer. Even if we want and ask for it, it would never happen - for the very reasons I mentioned above. Firstly it would oversupply the workforce with people who may or may not fill jobs and secondly the protection of native-born cannot be achieved without employer-petition that involved labor cert.
So politically, its almost impossible to get rid of employer-petition for all EB applicants. Maybe STEM/PH.D etc candidates will get a shot at such a provision in near future, but not everyone.
And like I said, the current system has its problems but point-based self petition is not the answer. And we are not singing a new tune. We are working hard beyond our capacities to get the same amendments introduced again that were introduced on April 7th by Senators Brownback, Alexander and Bingaman.
okuzmin
10-05 06:15 AM
I sent my application to Buffalo early Sep., however, have not received the receipt # yet. My friend told me it only took a couple of weeks for him to get his last year.
Just wonder how long it is gonna take, thanks for any headsup!
My experience:
- sent all documents to Buffalo on 11/21/2005
- documents were accepted around 12/02/2005 (the payment receipt I got back has this date on it)
- official case acceptance date on the letter is 12/08/2005
- the letter arrived around 12/15/2005
So, about a month for processing and mailing. If there is something missing in the document package, they will send the whole thing back with a letter explaining what else they are looking for. I had that happen to me: the fist time I sent the docs, I didn't provide proof of staying legally in the USA for at least one year. With all processing and mailing it also took about a month.
Just wonder how long it is gonna take, thanks for any headsup!
My experience:
- sent all documents to Buffalo on 11/21/2005
- documents were accepted around 12/02/2005 (the payment receipt I got back has this date on it)
- official case acceptance date on the letter is 12/08/2005
- the letter arrived around 12/15/2005
So, about a month for processing and mailing. If there is something missing in the document package, they will send the whole thing back with a letter explaining what else they are looking for. I had that happen to me: the fist time I sent the docs, I didn't provide proof of staying legally in the USA for at least one year. With all processing and mailing it also took about a month.
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